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Cindy

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Reply with quote  #51 
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Originally Posted by Gina

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Yes he is the hottest thing in a baseball cap.  Luckily I was up close and personal to that fact yummmm.


Truth:  I was saying that Zach is the hottest thing in a baseball cap.  I sort of feel like TK's my little brother, most of the time, and his heart is utterly Susan's.  So while I think TK is incredibly handsome and sexy as hell, it's Zach I lust for, not TK.  Zach, Ian and Patrick are my TV boyfriends.  TK is my buddy.

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Naughty, naughty Cheri!  While I'm sure some people would rather have Zach kill Hannah instead of cheat on Kendall, I don't think he'd go quite that far.

Count me in that group Gina, LOL.  You want to know why?  Because I've seen Zach's scary, quiet, lethal side countless times.  I saw his confession about knowing Madden was buried and not doing anything to help him.  I heard him say his only regret was that he wasn't the one who actually buried him.  That dark side is part of the Zach Slater I've had the privilege of knowing the last three years.  The Zach that would cheat on Kendall while she's carrying his child, the Zach that would disregard his own Ethan regrets and willingly repeat his history of not being there for his child since day one, the Zach that would disregard Hannah's emotional instability and place an innocent child in her hands and make it the child's sole responsibility to lift her out of her desparation, the Zach that has helped and felt for countless women and yet never succumbed to a roll in the sheets even during times he had no marriage or nothing to stop him, notsomuch.  Yeah, I'm a crazy Zendall fan apparently but more than that I'm a Zach fan and I'm thinking of Zach above all else. 

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And after watching today's episode for the third time, I'm getting more and more convinced that, while the writers left it ambiguous on purpose, I think TK played it as though Zach rocked her world and gave Hannah what she asked for. 


I had the opposite reaction.  I took it as relief that this possible threat has been lifted.  I took it as him being grateful that his family is still in tact and that he was able to overcome the past, thanks to Kendall, and that he is much more fortunate than Hannah is.

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Reply with quote  #53 

I like to hedge my bets. I don't have enough information to form a real conclusion.
 I think Zach might well have felt guilty enough to give in to Hannah. [Personally, I think this whole project was misguided and hopeless. ]     However, I also think there is a small chance that when it came right down to it,  one or both of them came to their senses and  Hannah realized what an ill-conceived plan this actually was.  (Wondrous as Zach is, this could have been extremely difficult for him, and he might not have been ready to spring into action -so to speak.) This could have given them the time to step back and re-evaluate. If Hannah was in a reasonable frame of mind, she might have backed off. If not, Cheri's theory could be in play, and either she committed suicide or tried to, forcing Zach to get her psychiatric care. (Hopefully, not where she could get her hands on Janet, if she ever finds out Janet killed Ethan.)
Zach could feel guilty for not being able to give Hannah what she wanted and feel guilty for trying. 2 for the price of one; 3 if you count residual guilt if Hannah convinced him he was responsible for her not telling him she was pregnant and for ruining her life when he "died". [Please note, I said Zach could feel guilty, not that he has any reason to] JMO

My biggest problem is that I really can't read Hannah. I can't figure out if she is BSC, or a super shark and this whole baby thing was a ploy to distract Zach from some corporate plot she has cooked up to blindside him. She was an interesting character, but I get the feeling tiic changed directions with her several times.
 There were so many story possibilities for her, but as far as I can tell, she just got stuck with a redux of Julia's. Had to stay in hiding for several years and give up her real life. Lost the man she loved. Wasn't able to have her/a child while she was in hiding. Didn't find closure or peace in shooting the man behind all her problems. Thought a baby would solve everything.

 

 

Cindy

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Reply with quote  #54 
LOL Puppetwrangler I too think they had a lot of great possibilities for Hannah but went the easy way out.  Writing her in such a way it doesn't make sense and losing all the great story potential this great actress could have played up against AM and TK. 

Now In MY Opinion there isn't enough guilt being shown by Zach or enough sorrow by Hannah that would make me think at this point in time that Zach slept with her.  If they make it so I will live with it, but I don't want to spec on it or dwell on it either. LOL call me a coward but I prefer to stick my head in the sand and enjoy what I do see on the show right now.  Which includes luckily TK and AM

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Reply with quote  #55 
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Originally Posted by Puppetwrangler

I like to hedge my bets. I don't have enough information to form a real conclusion.
I think Zach might well have felt guilty enough to give in to Hannah. [Personally, I think this whole project was misguided and hopeless. ] However, I also think there is a small chance that when it came right down to it, one or both of them came to their senses and Hannah realized what an ill-conceived plan this actually was. (Wondrous as Zach is, this could have been extremely difficult for him, and he might not have been ready to spring into action -so to speak.) This could have given them the time to step back and re-evaluate. If Hannah was in a reasonable frame of mind, she might have backed off. If not, Cheri's theory could be in play, and either she committed suicide or tried to, forcing Zach to get her psychiatric care. (Hopefully, not where she could get her hands on Janet, if she ever finds out Janet killed Ethan.)
Zach could feel guilty for not being able to give Hannah what she wanted and feel guilty for trying. 2 for the price of one; 3 if you count residual guilt if Hannah convinced him he was responsible for her not telling him she was pregnant and for ruining her life when he "died". [Please note, I said Zach could feel guilty, not that he has any reason to] JMO

My biggest problem is that I really can't read Hannah. I can't figure out if she is BSC, or a super shark and this whole baby thing was a ploy to distract Zach from some corporate plot she has cooked up to blindside him. She was an interesting character, but I get the feeling tiic changed directions with her several times.
There were so many story possibilities for her, but as far as I can tell, she just got stuck with a redux of Julia's. Had to stay in hiding for several years and give up her real life. Lost the man she loved. Wasn't able to have her/a child while she was in hiding. Didn't find closure or peace in shooting the man behind all her problems. Thought a baby would solve everything.



That's pretty much how I feel. Zach obviously was deeply affected by whatever happened in that room, IMO too uneasy and regretful, to have reflected merely his and Hannah's previous interactions.

Zach showed compassion towards Hannah re Eatdirt and kept quiet about her shooting ACS making him an accessory to a crime because of his compassion for her -- but she was still welcomed into their home afterwards by both Zach and Kendall, who also knew about it and not only had no reservations about her being around Spike, but even suggested she have another child. So I have trouble beliving that Zach was suddenly so disturbed about Hannah that he had her taken away in a straightjacket though of course anything is possible. Her committing suicide as Cheri suggested would be the best solution to me (and the most in keeping with her sudden appearance out of nowhere) because Zach could want to keep quiet about anything her family should know about first (if she still had one).

Likewise, she just didn't seem enough of a threat to Kendall or Spike for him to have given in to her demands, though I believe he would have if he felt he had to -- Zach was willing to let Kendall die in order to keep Spike alive, why wouldn't he be willing to have sex with another woman in order to keep her and Spike alive? But as I said, Hannah just didn't seem to be that much of a threat to me based on what I saw. And if Zach felt so guilty about Hannah that he would have sex with her because of it, he wouldn't have been investigating Hannah in the first place, unless he found something that made him feel really really guilty. If Zach found anything indicating she was a real danger, then he went on and let her go on as if everything was normal, until Josh went to him and told him Hannah needed help. But the fact that he told Josh he didn't find anything really means nothing to me because Zach holds his cards close to his chest.

So, I'm right back to where I started, and could go either way. Zach did seem both relieved and shaken to me when he went to Fusion. I saw profound sorrow - about something. Like you said, we just don't know enough about Hannah. Zach's past has NEVER gotten the attention it deserved - I mean, they couldn't even be bothered to bring on a Hannah who resembled the Hannah that Zach had just described the month before! I just do know that whatever happened, sooner or later it's going to bite Zach in the butt and that I'm going to enjoy watching TK play whatever it is.

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Diva

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri

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Originally Posted by Diva
I just realized one more reason why I believe he did not grant her demand.  Zach  was so certain when talking to Josh and Kendall that Hannah is not coming back.  If he did it, he most certainly would expect her to come back with her child and claim a right to Cambias. There is no way that Zach would believe her promise that she would disappear with the child.  He didn't trust her from the beginning and therefore there is no reason that he would take her promise as a given. 

However, if he didn't grant her demand and told her very firmly that he would never consent, there was IMO no reason for Hannah to stay in PV, because Zach at this time would have told her that she is transferred to another Cambias office or fired as he threatened to do when he caught her disposing of the rifle.

There's only one way that Zach could be absolutely certain that Hannah would never come back... if she's dead. 

Perhaps his behavior at the end of yesterday's episode and through today's is because of something other than his fidelity. I am not accusing Zach of murder, but it is quite possible that she died by accident or killed herself while he was there and he had to arrange for the disposal of the "body." Maybe she had already taken pills before he got there... she was over the edge... and that would explain everything.

Of course, it would also lead to the annual murder charges against Zach and his requisite jail time.

Just more food for thought...

Cheri I agree with you that Zach's certainty that Hannah is not coming back leaves open several possibilities. When he arrived at the condo she was in the bathroom and could have taken pills to end her life. She was definitely unaware that Zach would be coming to her apartment.  When Josh left her, she was lying down and was in a very depressed state and probably already over the edge.  When Zach arrived she may have made one desperate attempt to conjure up Ethan via a baby from Zach. Since the pills could have already started to take effect, it was too late for Zach to save her.  I don't see any reason though for Zach not to call the authorities and tell them that she committed suicide.

The other possibility is that he had her taken away to a psychiatric facility, because she was beyond any help he could give her. Since her mental breakdown was so obvious, there was no way that a man like Zach would even considered granting her wish, all fidelity to Kendall and his family aside. He must however have considered her a grave danger to Kendall and their children if allowed to stay free.  He knew she was capable of murder and was stalking him and his family by her own admission. How long would a psychiatric facility keep her from becoming a clear and present danger to his loved ones?  I, like you Cheri, do not want to believe that Zach would resort to the unthinkable to protect his family, but somehow that would make a lot more sense than his granting a mentally unstable woman the wish of a child of his, a child whose future he again would have no control over.


The one thing we can be sure of is that if Zach keeps the Hannah story from Kendall it will definitely come back to haunt him in a very big way, as secrets have done him in the past. With Greenlee on the loose, that is a given.

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Reply with quote  #57 

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Originally Posted by Diva
  I, like you Cheri, do not want to believe that Zach would resort to the unthinkable to protect his family, but somehow that would make a lot more sense than his granting a mentally unstable woman the wish of a child of his, a child whose future he again would have no control over.

Please don't misunderstand me, Diva, I do not consider Zach sleeping with Hannah or killing Hannah to be "unthinkable" acts. I would welcome either one (or both) because it would mean story for TK about Zach... and I'm more than done with Zach as nothing more than baby tender, purse-holder and hero-in-residence for Kendall's ongoing dramas. As someone reminded me last night, Zach is a dark, mysterious and dangerous man who does and has done illegal and immoral acts for his own secretive purposes. I miss him... and I want him back.

If Zach slept with Hannah, he did it for a damned good reason and if he believes that she truly left and will never return then I want to know why... and I want to see TK portraying all that glorious angst. If Zach killed Hannah, or thinks he killed Hannah, I want the same thing. And considering the punishment in Pine Valley for murder and attempted murder (i.e. no jail time, no trial, and total absolution a la JR, Jonathon, Tad, Erica, Bianca, Kendall, Julia, etc.), I'm not real concerned about punishment taking him offscreen. Besides, he's already been an accessory to more than one killing or attempted killing over the last three years.

I'm looking forward to some real storytelling, and to TK being front and center in a storyline about Zach...and I really don't give a flip what circumstances bring that about. 

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Diva

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri

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Originally Posted by Diva
  I, like you Cheri, do not want to believe that Zach would resort to the unthinkable to protect his family, but somehow that would make a lot more sense than his granting a mentally unstable woman the wish of a child of his, a child whose future he again would have no control over.

Please don't misunderstand me, Diva, I do not consider Zach sleeping with Hannah or killing Hannah to be "unthinkable" acts. I would welcome either one (or both) because it would mean story for TK about Zach... and I'm more than done with Zach as nothing more than baby tender, purse-holder and hero-in-residence for Kendall's ongoing dramas. As someone reminded me last night, Zach is a dark, mysterious and dangerous man who does and has done illegal and immoral acts for his own secretive purposes. I miss him... and I want him back.

If Zach slept with Hannah, he did it for a damned good reason and if he believes that she truly left and will never return then I want to know why... and I want to see TK portraying all that glorious angst. If Zach killed Hannah, or thinks he killed Hannah, I want the same thing. And considering the punishment in Pine Valley for murder and attempted murder (i.e. no jail time, no trial, and total absolution a la JR, Jonathon, Tad, Erica, Bianca, Kendall, Julia, etc.), I'm not real concerned about punishment taking him offscreen. Besides, he's already been an accessory to more than one killing or attempted killing over the last three years.

I'm looking forward to some real storytelling, and to TK being front and center in a storyline about Zach...and I really don't give a flip what circumstances bring that about. 

Cheri, please don't misunderstand me also. I too want the dark, mysterious dangerous Zach back, because TK  portrays him so wonderfully. I will admit that I do like him happy for a change, but I also don't want to see him as being nothing more than Kendall's protector. Zach the family man has been a wonderful interlude, however I am sure that the writers will take us on a wild ride with all the angst that a soap opera can muster and hopefully it will be TK in Zach's story front and center. I am sick of the characters on AMC that have been front and center to date.


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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetwrangler

I like to hedge my bets. I don't have enough information to form a real conclusion.
I think Zach might well have felt guilty enough to give in to Hannah. [Personally, I think this whole project was misguided and hopeless. ] However, I also think there is a small chance that when it came right down to it, one or both of them came to their senses and Hannah realized what an ill-conceived plan this actually was. (Wondrous as Zach is, this could have been extremely difficult for him, and he might not have been ready to spring into action -so to speak.) This could have given them the time to step back and re-evaluate. If Hannah was in a reasonable frame of mind, she might have backed off. If not, Cheri's theory could be in play, and either she committed suicide or tried to, forcing Zach to get her psychiatric care. (Hopefully, not where she could get her hands on Janet, if she ever finds out Janet killed Ethan.)
Zach could feel guilty for not being able to give Hannah what she wanted and feel guilty for trying. 2 for the price of one; 3 if you count residual guilt if Hannah convinced him he was responsible for her not telling him she was pregnant and for ruining her life when he "died". [Please note, I said Zach could feel guilty, not that he has any reason to] JMO

My biggest problem is that I really can't read Hannah. I can't figure out if she is BSC, or a super shark and this whole baby thing was a ploy to distract Zach from some corporate plot she has cooked up to blindside him. She was an interesting character, but I get the feeling tiic changed directions with her several times.
There were so many story possibilities for her, but as far as I can tell, she just got stuck with a redux of Julia's. Had to stay in hiding for several years and give up her real life. Lost the man she loved. Wasn't able to have her/a child while she was in hiding. Didn't find closure or peace in shooting the man behind all her problems. Thought a baby would solve everything.



That's pretty much how I feel. Zach obviously was deeply affected by whatever happened in that room, IMO too uneasy and regretful, to have reflected merely his and Hannah's previous interactions.

Zach showed compassion towards Hannah re Eatdirt and kept quiet about her shooting ACS making him an accessory to a crime because of his compassion for her -- but she was still welcomed into their home afterwards by both Zach and Kendall, who also knew about it and not only had no reservations about her being around Spike, but even suggested she have another child. So I have trouble beliving that Zach was suddenly so disturbed about Hannah that he had her taken away in a straightjacket though of course anything is possible. Her committing suicide as Cheri suggested would be the best solution to me (and the most in keeping with her sudden appearance out of nowhere) because Zach could want to keep quiet about anything her family should know about first (if she still had one).

Likewise, she just didn't seem enough of a threat to Kendall or Spike for him to have given in to her demands, though I believe he would have if he felt he had to -- Zach was willing to let Kendall die in order to keep Spike alive, why wouldn't he be willing to have sex with another woman in order to keep her and Spike alive? But as I said, Hannah just didn't seem to be that much of a threat to me based on what I saw. And if Zach felt so guilty about Hannah that he would have sex with her because of it, he wouldn't have been investigating Hannah in the first place, unless he found something that made him feel really really guilty. If Zach found anything indicating she was a real danger, then he went on and let her go on as if everything was normal, until Josh went to him and told him Hannah needed help. But the fact that he told Josh he didn't find anything really means nothing to me because Zach holds his cards close to his chest.

So, I'm right back to where I started, and could go either way. Zach did seem both relieved and shaken to me when he went to Fusion. I saw profound sorrow - about something. Like you said, we just don't know enough about Hannah. Zach's past has NEVER gotten the attention it deserved - I mean, they couldn't even be bothered to bring on a Hannah who resembled the Hannah that Zach had just described the month before! I just do know that whatever happened, sooner or later it's going to bite Zach in the butt and that I'm going to enjoy watching TK play whatever it is.
Hi can I join you guys on this fence?  I brought snacks...

Christy I think we're sharing a brain on this one.  One minute I'm "no way did he do that" and the next I'm "OK what all's going on here that I don't know about?"  Because SOMETHING definitely happened in that room; something other than her saying, "You owe me a baby" and him saying "No I don't now get the hell outta Dodge".  And he's not gonna tell Josh anymore than usual, Zach never tells anybody anything.  And while I know Zach likes his little nip, I don't remember EVER seeing him gulp down three good sized shots just one right after the other like that.  There would have to be some serious emotional turmoil going on inside him for him to do that, IMO.

Gina's spec went through my head, too, that whatever happened, he might have been on the verge of telling Kendall about it.  That "you know I love you, right?" sure sounded like a preamble to something, to me.  There's also a spoiler floating about for next week (which I won't get into here) that could somehow be related to whatever happened in that room.  And I think the whole idea that's been put forth of simple extramarital sex could just be a distraction from something way more dramatic and interesting, at least I hope so.  As always, I eagerly await Zach's next move.

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Gina

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Reply with quote  #60 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy

So, I'm right back to where I started, and could go either way. Zach did seem both relieved and shaken to me when he went to Fusion. I saw profound sorrow - about something. Like you said, we just don't know enough about Hannah. Zach's past has NEVER gotten the attention it deserved - I mean, they couldn't even be bothered to bring on a Hannah who resembled the Hannah that Zach had just described the month before! I just do know that whatever happened, sooner or later it's going to bite Zach in the butt and that I'm going to enjoy watching TK play whatever it is.


I'm still on the fence, although each time I watch that ep, I lean back the other direction.  Honestly, TK could've been playing sorrow for what was lost, what could've been, or feeling sorrow for what he'd had to do to get Hannah out of town and protect his family.  Guilt for what he'd done in the far past, or guilt at what he'd done in that hotel room with Hannah.  In fact... TK played ambiguous to a perfect T.

So I guess we'll never know until the writers choose to tell us.

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Reply with quote  #61 
I don't normally weigh in on these dialogs-my thoughts are usually stated already, and in a far more eloquent manner.  However.....I could not resist today.  I just got through rewatching the Tuesday episode, and one thing comes through so clearly to me.  Whether he feels sympathy or anger towards Hannah, beyond all else, he simply does not trust her.  When I listened to his words and the tone, and when I watched his mannerisms (while talking to Josh) this really came through so clearly to me.  For that reason alone, I have difficulty believing he could take this step with her.  I do believe that something profound occurred in that room, but not the "between the sheets" type of thing.
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Reply with quote  #62 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froggie

 Hi can I join you guys on this fence?  I brought snacks...

Christy I think we're sharing a brain on this one.  One minute I'm "no way did he do that" and the next I'm "OK what all's going on here that I don't know about?"  Because SOMETHING definitely happened in that room; something other than her saying, "You owe me a baby" and him saying "No I don't now get the hell outta Dodge".  And he's not gonna tell Josh anymore than usual, Zach never tells anybody anything.  And while I know Zach likes his little nip, I don't remember EVER seeing him gulp down three good sized shots just one right after the other like that.  There would have to be some serious emotional turmoil going on inside him for him to do that, IMO.

Gina's spec went through my head, too, that whatever happened, he might have been on the verge of telling Kendall about it.  That "you know I love you, right?" sure sounded like a preamble to something, to me.  There's also a spoiler floating about for next week (which I won't get into here) that could somehow be related to whatever happened in that room.  And I think the whole idea that's been put forth of simple extramarital sex could just be a distraction from something way more dramatic and interesting, at least I hope so.  As always, I eagerly await Zach's next move.

Welcome to the fence.

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Reply with quote  #63 
There is one scenario we have not discussed and that is the remote possibility that was speculated previously on the board, that Hannah had a possible connection to ACS and the SS murders and Zach's father's plan to punish him for having escaped his control.

Something very traumatic went down in Hannah's room.  I think by now we pretty much agree on that scenario, judging from Zach's reaction. Hannah was definitely in a very emotional state on the borderline of a complete mental breakdown.  What if Zach told her that there is no way that he can give her a child and that she should do what he has done and move on with her life instead of dwelling on the past.  He has told her that often enough and it is logical to assume that he told her again. I would imagine that at that point Hannah would have completely lost it and possibly blurted out something that opened Zach's eyes to what her real reason was to come to PV at this time, when his father's reign of terror was in progress. Perhaps it finally answered all the questions he was asking, while he was checking her out through the computer. Perhaps something he saw in the computer connected  and he saw her in a completely different light.  A light that pointed to a threat to his family.  He most certainly sounded very relieved  that Hannah was gone when he spoke to Kendall.  Action between the sheets would not have given him that relief.

Something to think about.

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Reply with quote  #64 
Diva - once again, I totally agree with you.  Your ideas make more sense than the idea that Zach slept with Hannah (IMO).
 
By the way - I love your new banner!!

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Reply with quote  #65 

Well, I think that Zach and Hannah did go throught with it only for the reason that this is a soap opera.  In soap opry land if you have sex only once you are 99.9 percent going to bare a child.  Somewhere along the line they're going to want to introduce a new character and they'll dredge up this one incident.  I think that our Zach, as he's been written previously, would tell her to get over it and go screw an unmarried person to get preggers, he's not available.  If she wants a child it doesn't have to be his just because a previous one was.  That's morbid anyway, trying to replace a dead offspring.  Yuck.  But that's just not how it works in daytime TV.  This is all just my opinion and I sure hope I'm wrong.


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Reply with quote  #66 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbe
Well, I think that Zach and Hannah did go throught with it only for the reason that this is a soap opera.  In soap opry land if you have sex only once you are 99.9 percent going to bare a child. 
That's right, look at Krystal and Tad.  IMO, the baby might still be Adam's. 

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Reply with quote  #67 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
  He most certainly sounded very relieved  that Hannah was gone when he spoke to Kendall.  Action between the sheets would not have given him that relief.

Something to think about.

I totally agree Diva.  Zach, to me, is acting like a man who has had a major shock...not one that is consumed with guilt.


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