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Diva

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Today we all feel badly for Zach and Ian. Zach so needs our comfort and support and Kendall is off in her own world of guilt and denial . I am sure when she realizes what has happened to Zach and Ian during her absence, she will feel even more guilty.

At this point I would like to make my feelings known about some of the recent writing on this show. With new writers I was hoping that the story telling on AMC would have some originality , especially where the characters are concerned.  Please do not misunderstand, I am not criticizing the present s/l theme, which is touching upon some important social issues, I just don’t like to see old s/l rehash. and what I am seeing looks like angst rehash with just a character switch.

In 2006 when Kendall was in a coma we saw Zach risk his own life to protect her wishes and bring Spike safely into this world. Then, when Kendall was literally at death’s door, the writers chose to have Zach leave with Dixie rather than to come back to Kendall’s bed side and be there in the event she passed away. I hated what the writers did to Zach. I regarded it contrived and plot driven.

Now they are doing exactly the same thing with Kendall. Kendall was so happy about the pregnancy, even while Zach was still hesitant about a child, because of his doubts of being a good father. Soon they both became anxious expectant parents planning a wonderful future for both their children. Ian’s premature birth and Spike’s accident changed things, but Kendall was still the loving mother trying to extend herself to both children equally and even spoke of Ian as "our shining ray of hope". Now with Spike’s deafness, all of a sudden the writers throw Kendall into irrational obsessive denial and have her desert Ian at death’s door, leaving Zach alone to make the difficult necessary decisions to save Ian’s life (of course Kendall was not aware of the brain surgery.) IMO a repeat of 2006 with just a switch in characters.

C’mon writers, give us some original angst, not this contrived rehash .


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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Diva!!  I cannot be as understanding of Kendall as some people.

The thing got people so upset about Zach leaving Kendall's bedside was because it was so out of character for him to do so.  Unfortunately what Kendall is doing right now if very in character.  She had reverted back to the Kendall who doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks, she is going to do what she wants regardless of who it hurts.

Now I did see that very touching scene with Kendall and Ian and had some hope for her, but after that she has completely withdrawn from him.  I can not get on board with PPD or PTSD because she would be withdrawing from everyone, not just Ian.  To me it does not matter how she is feeling, she needs to put her baby first.  Ian and Spike equally and maybe, just maybe a little for Zach.

I am feeling about Kendall now the way I did during the whole Dixie mess.  It wasn't pretty then and it ain't pretty now.

On a postive note . . . I gotta tell you again . . . I love your banners!!!  June
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Reply with quote  #3 
I've got to agree with Diva on this one...

Although Kendall has been quite self-absorbed in the past (even when it comes to Zach), she has always been a good and selfless mother.  So it makes NO sense whatsoever that she suddenly has Ian there, whom she has been so excited about from the beginning, she seems to have little interest in him at all - even with a psychiatric disorder.

It's just as out of character for her mothering side as when Zach was going off with Dixie with Kendall in a coma and kissing Dixie  when no one else was around - it just isn't them.  Very disappointing writing.

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Reply with quote  #4 
ICAM, jam. I don't think it's fair to compare one single event in a storyline comprising week after week of Zach's self-sacrifice for Kendall and Spike to Kendall's ignoring Ian week after week, when his existence is so precarious. But at least Zach called to check on Kendall (from jail, after risking his life to buy time for Spike) which is more than I can say for Kendall. She didn't even leave her phone on.

The real similarity between the two situations is who was with Kendall when she woke up last year, and who now has equal say with her about the child she is so obsessed with. One way or another, Ryan is always intimately involved in every single emotional and/or physical trauma Kendall undergoes. Zach just can't catch a break in getting a storyline that's his from start to finish, but neither Kendall, Spike, or Ryan have ever had that problem....which is enough reason for me to resent them right there.

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Cindy

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Reply with quote  #5 

Let me put this out there.  Notice the timeline might seem weeks and weeks to us, but I believe given the clothing changes that have occurred it isn't more then a few days PV time.  Usually in any surgery kids are out of the hospital within days.  I know that as a fact.  My son had his skull cut open and was out of hospital in 4 days and that was 22 years ago.  Spike isn't out yet, so that tells me the PV timeline is only about four days.


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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy

Let me put this out there.  Notice the timeline might seem weeks and weeks to us, but I believe given the clothing changes that have occurred it isn't more then a few days PV time.  Usually in any surgery kids are out of the hospital within days.  I know that as a fact.  My son had his skull cut open and was out of hospital in 4 days and that was 22 years ago.  Spike isn't out yet, so that tells me the PV timeline is only about four days.

so are you saying that Kendall's denial of Ian is some sort of PPD, that noone has taken notice of,,,including the doctors.......that her whole state of irrational is really only been a few days after giving birth.......


I like Kendall, but in order for me to support her now,,the writers need to make this storyline and your timeline fit and give plausible explaination for Doctors---Hospital---not picking up on this............
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Reply with quote  #7 
I really don't like the fact that Kendall isn't being a mother to baby Ian.  I can understand her to a point...being in two places at once is quite difficult...but come on, she can show alot more love and concern for Ian!!  She's a great mother to Spike (what's the kids REAL name??...lol) but she's lousy when it comes to being a good mother to her other son!!

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Diva

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy
ICAM, jam. I don't think it's fair to compare one single event in a storyline comprising week after week of Zach's self-sacrifice for Kendall and Spike to Kendall's ignoring Ian week after week, when his existence is so precarious. But at least Zach called to check on Kendall (from jail, after risking his life to buy time for Spike) which is more than I can say for Kendall. She didn't even leave her phone on.

The real similarity between the two situations is who was with Kendall when she woke up last year, and who now has equal say with her about the child she is so obsessed with. One way or another, Ryan is always intimately involved in every single emotional and/or physical trauma Kendall undergoes. Zach just can't catch a break in getting a storyline that's his from start to finish, but neither Kendall, Spike, or Ryan have ever had that problem....which is enough reason for me to resent them right there.

First Christy, I believe the doctor told Kendall to turn off the phone. I also agree with Cindy, that the time line here is a few days not weeks of Kendall ignoring Ian compared to the four months that she has been nurturing and bonding with him during the pregnancy. There was nothing but mother love for Ian that Kendall expressed during that time. Even in the hospital she expressed equal love and concern for both children. For the writers to suddenly cut her feelings for Ian off in almost seconds makes absolutely no sense and thereby I believe it is a totally contrived plot just as the one with Zach and Dixie.

Your second paragraph for the most part I agree with.  These writers are contriving the s/l as McTavish did all about Ryan and Greenlee and Kendall.  McT worshiped that triangle and I was hoping that the new writers would make some changes, but as the last few weeks have shown and also since Greenlee's arrival I see them going in that same direction.  Ryan through Spike unfortunately is in every trauma Kendall undergoes. Zach just can't get break from that manipulative character. Even today Ryan was in their room, going through Kendall's clothing and totally invading their privacy. I don't care that he was looking for the Dr.'s name.  He had no right.

Spike unfortunately will always be the link by which Ryan and Greenlee like leeches (or like barnacles) will be attached to Zach and Kendall's lives.

Todays conversation between Aiden and Greenlee was a major waste of air time IMO. This was the day of Ian's brain surgery. Zach and Ian should have been front and center on our screens.  And what did we get....4 minutes? Where are the writers' s/l priorities? In the toilet if you ask my opinion. Contrived rehash is all I see.



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Reply with quote  #9 
Diva, I'm gonna have to agree with her ideas of "contrived rehash".  This whole Kendall drama has turned into one stinking bomb and I for one, am sick of it.  I have always been a Zach/Kendall fan and I still want them together, (I think mostly because Zach wanted it and fought so hard for it).  However, the writers have shoved this nonsense of Kendall's "problem" down our throats and pushed Zach and Ian to the back-burner.  It is just plain stupid.  If this is how they want Kendall to behave with her husband and new son, then Zach needs to wait for Ian to get well and run like hell.  The only thing the new writers have done for me is piss me off and made me hate Ryass even more (I didn't know that was possible).  Also, I find myself resenting little Spike for taking away Ian's spotlight. 

The writers need to do something quick before the audience is turned off for good.  As a devoted TK fan, I will always continue to wade through the SH*T just to see him do what he does best, even when it gets so deep I can barely come up for air.  However, for the fans who aren't emotionally attached to any certain character, this crap will have them searching for a new pond to wade through in no time.

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Reply with quote  #10 
I would love for Kendall to be there with Zach taking care of Ian - spending time with a child who may or may not make it - making sure that however long his life is, he is loved and taken care of. If the writers have decided that Kendall is only going to care about Spike then fine. I can deal with her not being part of the Zach/ Ian storyline. What I can't deal with is them not giving Zach's relationship with his son any time to play out. I've seen people refer to Zach and Kendall as Rhettt and Scarlett, well if there were ever a moment for "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" this is it. Show me the story I've been waiting to see. When it comes right down to it Spike is alive even if he might be deaf - I am just not as interested in this storyline as I am in whether Zach's son lives.
Also, I know that Ian is being played by a preemie doll but we sure saw a lot more of the preemie doll when he was playing "Spike".
Ann

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Reply with quote  #11 
I totally agree Diva, it is the same story, with Zach and Kendall's roles reversed this year.
I think it is proof that, while we may have new writers, we still have the same president of ABCD, and he is still dictating terms.
Last summer, with the Dixie crap, they were trying to turn the Kendall fans against Zach.  This summer, with the Kendall ignoring Ian crap, they are trying to turn the Zach fans against Kendall.
Neither ploy has worked with me.  I remained loyal to Zach last year, and the crap ended.  I am remaining loyal to Kendall this year, and I know the crap will end.
In the end, I will not allow an agenda driven bastard to dictate what characters or couples I will, or will not like. (And he can push his golden boy from now on, I will also never like him.)

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Reply with quote  #12 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva

I also agree with Cindy, that the time line here is a few days not weeks of Kendall ignoring Ian compared to the four months that she has been nurturing and bonding with him during the pregnancy. There was nothing but mother love for Ian that Kendall expressed during that time. Even in the hospital she expressed equal love and concern for both children. For the writers to suddenly cut her feelings for Ian off in almost seconds makes absolutely no sense and thereby I believe it is a totally contrived plot just as the one with Zach and Dixie.



I'm going to have to jump in and disagree. Although Kendall has SAID she's torn between her children, I have not seen it nor have I felt it. It has been Zach who has commented, "Actions speak louder" in the past. Kendall's actions tell me that she is not a loving or devoted mother or that she even gives Ian a second thought unless someone reminds her of his existence. She SAYS what she is supposed to say, but she DOES what she wants to do which is be anywhere but by the side of her critically ill son. Until and unless the show can convince me with more than Kendall's sporadic declarations of love... and today certainly wasn't that day considering just how quickly she was swayed from being torn between her sons to agreeing to devote all her time and energy to the healthiest of her children... then I cannot accept that the way Kendall is being written is an aberration. It is consistently written that Kendall has all but rejected her newborn son, Ian... she loved him in the womb but appears to find him little more than an inconvenience now. Zach's disappearance with Dixie was for only a moment, and only after he knew that he could do no more to help Kendall or Spike. Zach was with Kendall and protected Spike throughout every important moment... and left with Dixie when the lack of his presence could not harm either of them. Kendall's lack of presence in Ian's life will have far-reaching implications, and could easily hasten his death by her lack of bonding with him.

I honestly don't care if it's been one day, four days or the several weeks that we've experienced since Kendall went into labor. Kendall's behavior is reprehensible and, IMO, indefensible. Love, families and marriage require commitment, dedication and compromise... she exhibits none of those traits and I am beyond sick and tired of watching Zach being little more than her doormat and whipping boy. I would say that I am looking forward to his telling her just how upset he is, except that I believe he will be too kind to her by my standards. Someone needs to pull Kendall up by the short hairs and either commit her to Oak Haven or force her to be a loving mother to this little boy that deserves nothing less than both his parents fighting for him.

That said, I have no hopes that this story will change because the writers just don't get it. In the latest issue of SOW, James Harmon Brown is quoted as saying, "Because Kendall didn't spend the nine months of bonding with baby Ian in the normal way, it causes a bit of a disconnect with her." Wow. Can this man be any more out of touch with reality? Zach didn't get to spend even one moment bonding with the child in the way that Kendall did for nearly five months, yet he has no disconnect with his son! And I have never known the mother of a preemie who couldn't bond with her child because she wasn't pregnant long enough... that is just a load of bullshit and I believe we will need hip waders to slough through what the new "writers" will be slinging our way. He goes on to comment about Kendall's dediction to Spike, "It's not like she's abandoning her other child, but she only has so much energy." Sorry, JHB, but to this audience member abandonment is EXACTLY what I perceive Kendall has done to her youngest son... and I'm not buying what you're selling.

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zachstruck

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva

I also agree with Cindy, that the time line here is a few days not weeks of Kendall ignoring Ian compared to the four months that she has been nurturing and bonding with him during the pregnancy. There was nothing but mother love for Ian that Kendall expressed during that time. Even in the hospital she expressed equal love and concern for both children. For the writers to suddenly cut her feelings for Ian off in almost seconds makes absolutely no sense and thereby I believe it is a totally contrived plot just as the one with Zach and Dixie.



I'm going to have to jump in and disagree. Although Kendall has SAID she's torn between her children, I have not seen it nor have I felt it. It has been Zach who has commented, "Actions speak louder" in the past. Kendall's actions tell me that she is not a loving or devoted mother or that she even gives Ian a second thought unless someone reminds her of his existence. She SAYS what she is supposed to say, but she DOES what she wants to do which is be anywhere but by the side of her critically ill son. Until and unless the show can convince me with more than Kendall's sporadic declarations of love... and today certainly wasn't that day considering just how quickly she was swayed from being torn between her sons to agreeing to devote all her time and energy to the healthiest of her children... then I cannot accept that the way Kendall is being written is an aberration. It is consistently written that Kendall has all but rejected her newborn son, Ian... she loved him in the womb but appears to find him little more than an inconvenience now. Zach's disappearance with Dixie was for only a moment, and only after he knew that he could do no more to help Kendall or Spike. Zach was with Kendall and protected Spike throughout every important moment... and left with Dixie when the lack of his presence could not harm either of them. Kendall's lack of presence in Ian's life will have far-reaching implications, and could easily hasten his death by her lack of bonding with him.

I honestly don't care if it's been one day, four days or the several weeks that we've experienced since Kendall went into labor. Kendall's behavior is reprehensible and, IMO, indefensible. Love, families and marriage require commitment, dedication and compromise... she exhibits none of those traits and I am beyond sick and tired of watching Zach being little more than her doormat and whipping boy. I would say that I am looking forward to his telling her just how upset he is, except that I believe he will be too kind to her by my standards. Someone needs to pull Kendall up by the short hairs and either commit her to Oak Haven or force her to be a loving mother to this little boy that deserves nothing less than both his parents fighting for him.

That said, I have no hopes that this story will change because the writers just don't get it. In the latest issue of SOW, James Harmon Brown is quoted as saying, "Because Kendall didn't spend the nine months of bonding with baby Ian in the normal way, it causes a bit of a disconnect with her." Wow. Can this man be any more out of touch with reality? Zach didn't get to spend even one moment bonding with the child in the way that Kendall did for nearly five months, yet he has no disconnect with his son! And I have never known the mother of a preemie who couldn't bond with her child because she wasn't pregnant long enough... that is just a load of bullshit and I believe we will need hip waders to slough through what the new "writers" will be slinging our way. He goes on to comment about Kendall's dediction to Spike, "It's not like she's abandoning her other child, but she only has so much energy." Sorry, JHB, but to this audience member abandonment is EXACTLY what I perceive Kendall has done to her youngest son... and I'm not buying what you're selling.

Cheri,

 again.

At this point.....Zach Honey.........take your little boy, hit the road and find a mother for Ian that's worthy if that's what you feel best.   Raise him alone if need be.  I'm done with Kendall and feel you should be too.  I'm just so totally pissed off right now my skin crawls.  ZENDALL IS DEAD TO ME!!! (of course it was never really alive for me either but oh well.)

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Reply with quote  #14 
God Cheri, you did it again.  Thanks so much for putting my exact feelings into words.

P.S.  I am re-reading Just Think About Us and love it just as much the second time around.  Can't wait to get home from doing "motherly things"  to finish it.  LOL!!  June
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Reply with quote  #15 

Awww... thanks, June. What a concept -- a Kendall that actually grows, matures and puts Zach and their child first. I don't imagine we'll ever see that on the show, will we?


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Reply with quote  #16 
GUILT is a powerful emotion.  If you remember Zach almost committed suicide over the guilt of his son's death.  She has said it out loud to the audience in her monologue.  She chose Ian over Spike when she handed him to Greenlee.  She went along with bringing Greenlee into the "family".  She let Zach down.  She put her little guy in that box with all those tubes instead of keeping him safe inside her.  She's terrified of losing him.  Guilt and fear are keeping her away.  If that wasn't enough, she is seeing Greens stealing Spike all the time she's not with him.  This has been playing out on my screen I don't know what everyone else is seeing.  Also, most mothers who suffer from PPD reject the baby they've just given birth too.  Also, I believe that she knows Ian is in the best possible hands - ZACH'S.  She trust Zach to do everything for Ian but she cannot trust Ryass to keep Spike safe and out of danger.  I think in the next few days Zach will see this and understand.  Most men do not understand about PPD unless it is spelled out for them and I think it's coming.

My one big complaint about this whole story is RYASS.  I hate his face, I hate his voice, I hate everything about him.  When will TIIC realize that he brings the ratings down and we have had enough of this asshole.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toasty2
GUILT is a powerful emotion.  If you remember Zach almost committed suicide over the guilt of his son's death.  She has said it out loud to the audience in her monologue.  She chose Ian over Spike when she handed him to Greenlee.  She went along with bringing Greenlee into the "family".  She let Zach down.  She put her little guy in that box with all those tubes instead of keeping him safe inside her.  She's terrified of losing him.  Guilt and fear are keeping her away.  If that wasn't enough, she is seeing Greens stealing Spike all the time she's not with him.  This has been playing out on my screen I don't know what everyone else is seeing.  Also, most mothers who suffer from PPD reject the baby they've just given birth too.  Also, I believe that she knows Ian is in the best possible hands - ZACH'S.  She trust Zach to do everything for Ian but she cannot trust Ryass to keep Spike safe and out of danger.  I think in the next few days Zach will see this and understand.  Most men do not understand about PPD unless it is spelled out for them and I think it's coming.

My one big complaint about this whole story is RYASS.  I hate his face, I hate his voice, I hate everything about him.  When will TIIC realize that he brings the ratings down and we have had enough of this asshole.

Ok fine....................BUT WHAT ABOUT ZACH!!!! Why is it always about Kendall.  This is what I've been seeing and nothing else.  I'm infuriated.


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Reply with quote  #18 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toasty2
GUILT is a powerful emotion.  If you remember Zach almost committed suicide over the guilt of his son's death.  She has said it out loud to the audience in her monologue.  She chose Ian over Spike when she handed him to Greenlee.  She went along with bringing Greenlee into the "family".  She let Zach down.  She put her little guy in that box with all those tubes instead of keeping him safe inside her.  She's terrified of losing him.  Guilt and fear are keeping her away.  If that wasn't enough, she is seeing Greens stealing Spike all the time she's not with him.  This has been playing out on my screen I don't know what everyone else is seeing.  Also, most mothers who suffer from PPD reject the baby they've just given birth too.  Also, I believe that she knows Ian is in the best possible hands - ZACH'S.  She trust Zach to do everything for Ian but she cannot trust Ryass to keep Spike safe and out of danger.  I think in the next few days Zach will see this and understand.  Most men do not understand about PPD unless it is spelled out for them and I think it's coming.

If Kendall is so ridden with guilt over Ian, why then did she never given any indication she felt guilty about Spike's pre-birth history? After all, despite her own very public tortured past as a given-up-for-adoption child, Kendall didn't hesitate to give her own baby to somebody else and not, like Erica, because she was impregnated with it against her will at the age of 14. When told Greenlee's embryos were unusable, Kendall volunteered her own egg and conceived Spike as the highest form of sacrifice to her goddess Greenlee... not for Spike's own sake, but as an object of Ryan worship for them both.

When that didn't pan out (and Ryan's resurrection obviated the need for his replacement anyway), Kendall became a pregnant woman without a cause. Believing herself unready to be a mother under those circumstances, she made plans to give Spike up for adoption to strangers chosen by Dr. Madden. That plan was in effect until a month before Spike was due, and during that whole time, Kendall was emotionally detached from the fetus growing in her womb.

So... where is Kendall's guilt for that? I'm not saying she should feel guilty -- I'm just saying that her two very deliberate near-sacrifices of Spike (first to Greenlee, then to Madden's perfectplasticparents) never stopped Kendall from being able to look Spike in the eye once he was born.

So... why should the circumstances of Ian's birth keep her from him? Especially when (as an intelligent woman who has read her share of books about pregnancy), Kendall has to know how important the sound of her voice and the sense of her presence would be in order for Ian to thrive, whether he was coming to term inside of her body, or in the impersonal, sterile environment of a hospital?

No, I can't accept guilt as an excuse for Kendall abandoning her child during the moments of his greatest need for her. Nor do I accept the Zach-Dixie/Kendall-Ian meme either. I see no correlations between the relationships. There was no parent-child bond between Zach and Kendall, and Zach had already seen to it by locking himself in Kendall's hospital room and fending off all opposition, that Kendall would stay pregnant long enough to ensure Spike's survival. But Kendall is Ian's mother, yet any time she has spent in the NICU to give her and Zach's struggling son support during his fight for life has only been at Zach's gentle urging.

If she feels too guilty to be there for Ian now, while he is still alive and she has the chance to give him moral support if nothing else, how guilty can I expect Kendall to feel if Ian dies while she was off trying to fix her far less needy son?

Something is definitely wrong with Kendall, but I don't care what it is because right now (and IMO only of course) she doesn't have the luxury of indulging herself in it.

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheri
[
 
That said, I have no hopes that this story will change because the writers just don't get it. In the latest issue of SOW, James Harmon Brown is quoted as saying, "Because Kendall didn't spend the nine months of bonding with baby Ian in the normal way, it causes a bit of a disconnect with her." Wow. Can this man be any more out of touch with reality? Zach didn't get to spend even one moment bonding with the child in the way that Kendall did for nearly five months, yet he has no disconnect with his son! And I have never known the mother of a preemie who couldn't bond with her child because she wasn't pregnant long enough... that is just a load of bullshit and I believe we will need hip waders to slough through what the new "writers" will be slinging our way. He goes on to comment about Kendall's dediction to Spike, "It's not like she's abandoning her other child, but she only has so much energy." Sorry, JHB, but to this audience member abandonment is EXACTLY what I perceive Kendall has done to her youngest son... and I'm not buying what you're selling.


Cheri, I have not read the latest issue of SOW, but your quote of JHB's reasoning behind Kendall's behavior shocks me.  If this is how he is explaining  Kendall's detachment from Ian and her concentration on Spike, then this writer is detached from reality in a major way and we are in for some horrible unrealistic story telling. I am also not buying what he is selling.

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Originally Posted by Diva

Cheri, I have not read the latest issue of SOW, but your quote of JHB's reasoning behind Kendall's behavior shocks me.  If this is how he is explaining  Kendall's detachment from Ian and her concentration on Spike, then this writer is detached from reality in a major way and we are in for some horrible unrealistic story telling. I am also not buying what he is selling.


I think this may be the one thing we can all agree on.

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